First of all: come on you other sparklers! I know you’re out there! Let’s see some post-y goodness.
Next: just got back from a great weekend trip to the Bamboo Forest in Damyang, Jeolla-do. More later on that.
Moreover: I’ll assume most of you have read my “why do expats complain” tome from back in July (here’s the Korea Herald article that serves as a pretty good summary of the topic, here’s my part, and here are the other two parts of the Korea Herald trifecta: Gord Sellar’s and The Korean’s.) Now, I don’t want to become “the complaining expat guy” and have it be the only thing I’m ever remembered for on the K-blogosphere. . . but this is an interesting talking point.
“ICanHazCheeseburger” left an interesting comment on my “Why do Expats Complain” post which I’d like to quote here as a bit of a conversation starter. Other than missing the fact I’m Canadian, Cheezburger makes some interesting points that are worth thinking about.
I iz on ur commint boardz, criticizin' ur artikuls.
Cheesburger says:
You say that you want to use this topic to start a conversation, but your entire premise is a nonstarter. This post is a defense (or explanation devised as defense) of complaining expats and your other post about “defensive” Koreans is essentially a critique of them. Which is precisely the position expats hold–you are not trying to take a new position on the situation–you are still in your expat corner and the Koreans in theirs.
The common thread I see is the arrogance I have become accustomed to seeing among North American expats–men and women. There is a sense that they critique because they come from AMERICA where people have FREEDOM and savor INDIVIDUALITY, etc., and when others cannot take the criticism it is because they are not familiar with FREE SPEECH and ORIGINAL THINKING.
I am Indian-America, and have lived equally in both countries in my hyphenated existence, and have traveled through Asia and the Middle East, and the attitude displayed by Americans is about the same in every country. There is always the usual complaint about race relations (news flash, American race issues–with its horrific history of slavery and institutionalized racism–is not of interest to most people not American) or gender equality. One would think based on complaints from American expats that the only way to be free is to mimic an American woman. Hijab, the veil, early marriage, stay-at-home moms, etc., are categorically dismissed as being enslaved or enslaving, etc.
So, Koreans are not the only ones who are fed up with North American expats whining. Most of the world is.
Your post, while well-written, would have been more worthwhile if you had examined your assumptions. Instead of being defensive, you should have evaluated why so many North Americans feel the need to come to another nation and denigrade it. Where do these instincts come from? Why would you feel that you have the right to criticize at all? Why does anyone have to defend anything to YOU? Where does your arrogance come from?
I grew up in a diverse immigrant family in the U.S. I also studied for my B.A. and M.A. in the heartland of America. I did my doctoral studies in a coastal city. I came across the same “type” of Americans–woefully self-indulgent and self-centered in their world view. The point is that these instincts to complain without self awareness–to mock China’s Olympics b/c of human rights abuses while maintaining Gitmo, etc.,–is beyond logic.
Learn to be more self aware. When I was in Seoul, many people stared at me, called out if I was Hindoo. I stopped to chat with all of the people–because curiousity is far better than politically correct cosmopolitanism. Heck, when I was in village in South India, people stared at me because I was wearing jeans. Hell heck, I stared at the first blonde woman I ever saw. So what?
The idea that by becoming economically part of a developed nation opens one up to playing with the “big boys” and thus opens one up to criticism is ridiculous. Why should Koreans or Chinese or Indians have to play by rules set by North Americans? Just because you think that criticism (I call it infantile whining) is a mark of one’s individuality doesn’t mean it has automatic validity. It doesn’t. It just shows that you are as much caged in by the narrow mentality of your own background as you argue others are.
One example: While in Delhi I came across a Canadian woman studying arranged marriages, and she went on and on about how women in India have it bad. I saw other Indians trying to defend women’s rights to her. She noticed that I kept mostly silent and she asked how I felt. And I told her that it amazed me how little I cared about what she felt about Indian women. She was taken aback. I told her that I respected her and thought she was a lovely woman, but just couldn’t care less about what she thought about India, its poverty, its class inequities. I care very much about India, its poverty, its lack of rights for its citizens, etc., I just didn’t give two hoots about what she thought. Why? Because damn if I will get into a defensive mode with her. I could give her a million reasons why she was wrong or why she was right, but the reality was that her position of complaint came from that of superiority–even if she was unaware. She came from a mindset that she needed to fix the poor people of India. Two hundred years of colonization and 50 years of American imperialism have taught some of us Indians that we do not need to justify our country to anyone. The woman was welcome to whine, stay in India and complain, or gush over it, or whatever. I didn’t care.
I think Koreans need to get that attitude.
To the expats who have lived in Korea for 5+ years and feel that they have the right to complain: sure you have the right to complain, but also examine yourself and your assumptions and your attitude and learn to evaluate how much of your entrenched background you are still caged within and what the nature of the cage is from which you speak. It is not the matter of how many years you have lived somewhere–it is a matter of where you are coming from.
Let Koreans fulfill their own destiny…and if Koreans find your comments offensive enough that they are defensive, then shut up. There is a reason why there is a private space and a public space. Expats, if you are fed up or angry, complain to your own friends. That’s where private space comes in. If Koreans don’t want to listen to your whiney ass, they shouldn’t have to. Take the cue, and be quiet.
I’d like to see you guys go to South L.A. and whine about Mexican gangs…while in Mexican neighborhoods. See how defensive they get…and you get when you get kneecapped.
Whine in the privacy of your home if you are complaining is your nature. Koreans don’t need to indulge you–and if you think they do, then you need to figure out why you think that way and how and why you have this John Bolton-Rumsfeld-Cheney mentality about how the world should treat you.
Summary: Why should any Korean care what complaining expats have to say? Leave’em alone to sort out their own bugaboos, and recognize that your assumption that Koreans ought to listen to complaining expats comes out of your own cultural arrogance.
I have my thoughts about what Cheesburger said, but I’ll save them until after the conversation has started up here. One thing I’d like to offer as a partial rejoinder is this (response to another) comment The Korean made on his own page’s comment board, discussing defensive Koreans:
“And is it any wonder that Korea continues to be hamstrung by so many of the same problems … precisely because they’re so touchy about accepting criticism of those chronic problems?”
That one made the Korean laugh. What an inflated sense of ego! You think Korea has problems because it does not listen you, or other complaining expats? That’s precisely the type of American/Western arrogance that the rest of the world detests. Koreans are acutely aware of all the problems you have listed, and they are working on it in their own way. Complaining expats fail to see this, either because they do not directly access the Korean media, or because they just don’t care.
The comment board’s open; have’at’er!
26/10/2008 at 9:41 pm Permalink
Take the cue, and be quiet.
So, does this mean he thinks Roboseyo is “private space” to run off at the mouth like that?
26/10/2008 at 9:49 pm Permalink
And last I checked, India was a functioning democracy for about… oh, fifty years… Without being under the direct influence of the USA.
Between this and the rest of the comment, I’m calling bullshit on Cheezy here.
27/10/2008 at 8:37 am Permalink
I wonder what Cheezburger would say about Indians criticizing the US. She seems to think that’s just fine. Also, I like her stereotyping of Mexicans as violent kneecappers.
27/10/2008 at 9:08 am Permalink
Don’t forget also that some Americans are sick of other Americans complaining.
Especially if you hear it everyday at your job.
27/10/2008 at 9:14 am Permalink
Heh heh. I had a coworker like that, Joy. Give her fifteen minutes and she’d complain for two hours. She thought getting a new job would fix her problems. . . but I bet it didn’t.
My first thought is that for somebody who claimed to do Ph.D. studies, I’m surprised Cheesburger failed to notice that I make a distinction between the types of complainers who deserve to be listened to, and those that are best ignored.
And you’re totally right, William, my blog IS my private space — It’s not like I’m foisting it upon every Korean I meet and not letting it go until I’m sure they understand what I’m trying to say.
27/10/2008 at 11:31 am Permalink
Mr. Cheezeburger makes some interesting points. I think that sometimes complainers are simply people who want to help, but don’t always get listened to. Western culture generally has a missionary zeal to it, and while expats may know it or not, it may be part of the culture to want to “help,” but the “help,” that is offered is often delivered in less than desireable means. Just look at the Iraq war. When the justification for the Iraq war ceased being about WMD’s the idea that America was “helping,” this nation under the tyrany of Saddam Hussein.
Meanwhile some expat who can’t speak Korean, has never studied a foriegn language, and knows nothing at all about teaching esl may do what they can to try to “help,” but may not realize that they aren’t that helpful. Also the hagwon owner who hired that person may either have unreasonable expectations for that person, or they may just find it profitable to have a white person to take pictures of and who can sing songs to 8 year olds five hours a day. So in these situations I think that both parties have something to complain about. One party really wants to help, but doesn’t know how, or the other party really wants the others help, or doesn’t but can’t communicate exactly what it is they want them to do.
Mr. Cheezeburger has some good points though. Back to the example of Iraq. Inside the Iraqi green zone, the American contractors have built a mini America complete with a taco bell. The U.S. government hired Joe the plumber to write the Iraqi constitution, and anyone who wanted a contract job over there was asked questions like who they voted for, and what was their party loyalty. Clearly the type of arrogence that Royal with Cheese alludes to exists, but I think that specific examples of complaints lobbed towards disorganization in the Korean educational system are valid. Complaints like: The boss of the hagwon I work at hired an alcoholic to be my coworker and room mate because that person has a master’s degree. Or, I came to Korea not knowing anything about Korea, 4 months later, I still don’t know anything because I work all the time and never know what is going on or what I’m supposed to do. These are specific complaints about jobs and not the country, and people in this situation should be careful not to word it as about being about the country.
27/10/2008 at 3:10 pm Permalink
I think the major problem with this critique is that it is every bit as unreflective as the “whining” they take to task. That’s a pretty broad brush being used, and I like it just as little as I like expats here who say “Koreans do (insert behavior they find annoying)”.
The idea that one cannot possibly critique or criticize any culture but one’s own (and what the heck is that? Coming from the Pacific Northwest was I unentitled to look critically at how things were done in Georgia when I moved there? Or does it only apply across national borders? Can I complain about how people live in DC but have to stop when I talk about BC, even though it’s probably closer culturally to me? Can I never speak to differences between my Irish-American ancestry and my friend’s Anglo-Saxon origins?) is patently ridiculous. And yes, we should all be self-aware and think deeply about these critiques (which cheezeburger seems to conflate with whining and complaining) but to say that one has no real right to voice this publicly is doing a disservice not only to expats with real, reasoned ideas pertinent to the discussion but also to Koreans who are in fact by and large perfectly able to receive, process, and come to their own conclusions about what expats are saying. The idea that expats need to shut up except in private seems to me just as paternalistic and patronizing an attitude towards Koreans as the idea that Koreans should take whatever expats say as serious matters. Not to mention that it totally denies the fact that expats are participants in Korean daily life.
Special bonus points for the incredibly offensive bit about Mexicans (Hispanic Americans? Illegal immigrants? Who?) in La.
27/10/2008 at 3:14 pm Permalink
And you’re totally right, William, my blog IS my private space
Weeeeellllllll~ Only if you set it to “friends only”. And even then, it’s sitting on some server some where, waiting to be found. Nothing is private on the interwebs.
Anyway, Cheezy’s “love it or leave it” attitude is bullshit no matter what language it’s in. India IS assbackwards in how it treats women and the lower castes. Korea’s Confucian culture IS also assbackwards. And the power “Jesus” holds over American culture is also assbackwards.
Most cultures take a long time to shed the habits they picked up in times when they didn’t know any better (Knowledge is culmulative after all) So we get things like religion, caste systems, and societal philosophies like Confucianism that should be tossed in the dustbin of history. But the only way to do that is to continue to point out that they need to be thrown away.
I don’t think that expats doing the pointing out is useful. No one changes a society except the people in that society. But that doesn’t mean cultural bullshit should be blindly accepted because you’re a visitor.
27/10/2008 at 4:47 pm Permalink
People get defensive when ‘outsiders’ complain/critique their country/work. If I put all my effort into making a really great movie, and all anyone ever did was tell me how bad it was, i’d feel pretty shitty.
In my humble(and expat) opinion, too many expats make statements that come off as being complaints. I noticed this and because I did, my blog is now dryer than the Sahara. I can’t seem to find things to write about that don’t end up being complainy. Nevertheless, I do now try to ask far more questions these days, and when I do, I find that the answers I get are very close to the answers I get to the same questions regarding Canadian problems in Toronto: “Who cares?” “I got my own shit to deal with.” “It’s not my problem”. “That’s just the way it is.”
When expats go back to their “homeland” to roost, how much time do they spend trying to point out “homegrown” problems? Do they go for drinks week after week with their coworkers and complain about their boss, working conditions, society, etc? Do they mostly hang out with people doing the exact same job, but at different locations? Am I wrong to assume very few do? Their lives are ‘richer’ as they have people from all kinds of different ‘walks’ telling them stories, interacting with them, etc.
I can’t say I have a lot of Korean friends, but the ones i have (none are teachers) do make my life richer, happier, and add perspectives I wouldn’t get if all I did was ramble away my days in Korea with native English cohorts rambling about the same damn stuff day after day.
I guess it was in about my third year that I noticed that most expats in Korea reminded me a lot of tourists in Thailand. They rarely interact with the local population (well unless for a shag or something) and are always eager to talk to “a friendly face”.
/end rant
27/10/2008 at 5:12 pm Permalink
I don’t know about that . . . My friends and I back stateside were (and are) plenty critical of the problems at home. We do in fact debate the issues of the day over beers, and call BS where we feel necessary.
27/10/2008 at 5:14 pm Permalink
And I have to say, also, that I think that it’s a mistake to say that “Korea’s Confucian culture IS also assbackwards” – any complex philosophical system has parts that are functional and positive as well as problematic. There’s plenty to find that is good in Confucianism, even if you don’t particularly care for the way it’s applied sometimes.
27/10/2008 at 6:38 pm Permalink
“And the power ‘Jesus’ holds over American culture is also assbackwards.”
Well, as long as we’re laying our cards on the table, you could say this about the ROK as well, IMO.
FWIW, I’ve been here two months and I really like it. Four times out of five when I hear an ex-pat complain it’s over the most trivial garbage that they’d whine about _anywhere_ outside of America. (Although my two favorite dumbass ex-pat complaints are “I don’t like gimchi” and “I’m a vegetarian ZOMG why is there so much meat here?”) There are some genuine criticisms that I think are worth making, but there really isn’t a two-way street when it comes to teachers going to America to teach Korean, since it frankly isn’t an “in-demand” language in the States. Certainly there are plenty of Korean-Americans, and it’s worth listening to what they find problematic about American culture, but it really would be like comparing apples and oranges.
Right now my biggest gripe is snail-mail. I work from 9-6, so I can’t get to a post office during the week. And honestly, for a city the size of Seoul, there should be more of them around. It’s great the ROK is so wired, but I need me some stamps and stuff for old-skool communication. Pretty minor gripe, obviously.
27/10/2008 at 6:43 pm Permalink
Oh, and a heck of a lot of the T-money machines in the subway stations are busted and won’t accept bills to put more won on my card.
I AM FILLED WITH EX-PAT RAGE KOREA! LOUD NOISES!
27/10/2008 at 6:53 pm Permalink
Yeah, some good points all around, some things worth thinking about, etc., etc., etc.
I haven’t done an installment for the “why do expats complain” series, and don’t plan to. What all this mess has taught me is that there’s no need to justify your opinion to other bloggers and readers, which is what this meme has boiled down to. I get slammed for being negative on some things, but the people going after me are equally as negative regarding their own pet issues. If poeple don’t want to read what we have to say, they’re free to ignore it. People who choose not to acknowledge my/our opinion are welcome to continue enjoying the local Wa Bar and bitching about why they can’t find O-Pee-Chee hockey cards at Lotte Mart. If people aren’t interested in your take on Korea, they certainly won’t be interested in your take on your take. Remember, it’s far more fulfilling to write about Korea, not to write about writing about Korea.
27/10/2008 at 8:34 pm Permalink
When expats go back to their “homeland” to roost, how much time do they spend trying to point out “homegrown” problems?
You’ve obviously never sat in a kitchen with Maritimers on a Saturday night.
There’s plenty to find that is good in Confucianism
Like…?
“And the power ‘Jesus’ holds over American culture is also assbackwards.”
Well, as long as we’re laying our cards on the table, you could say this about the ROK as well, IMO.
Or Iran or India or California, anywhere the prehistoric stain of religion still marrs the land.
27/10/2008 at 10:09 pm Permalink
When dealing with Koreans why not avoid topics like religion and politics, and that other taboo one that I’m forgetting. My co-teacher is a bit religious (to annoyingly unprofessional standards) so I try to talk to her about cooking and stuff like that. Think about the annoying things that Koreans ask you, and try to avoid recycling them. (real example) “In Korea after a woman has a baby she doesn’t take a shower because she has to stay warm, is that true in the west?” Maybe people should think before they ask questions that begin with the phrase, “Why do Koreans always____________?” I’m going to have to agree with Jaim on the Kimchi and Vegitarian thing. Koreans actually eat more vegitables than Americans, many more, and if people want to live vegan style they could check out the temples, monk food is completely vegan. Weather or not one can sustain their diet in a foreign country might be something worth looking into before one makes a life changing decision like moving to Korea.
28/10/2008 at 12:59 am Permalink
Like what? Oh, I dunno . . . a sense of responsibility, harmonious social relations, respect for education, moral governance . . . like any philosophical system, it doesn’t mean that everyone follows them properly all the time. But to deny that the core philosophy encourages these things seems silly to me. Obviously you don’t care much for organized religion, which is perfectly fine, but denying that there’s any good in it at all is as seems just as fundamentalist as radical Islam or extreme far-right Christianity.
28/10/2008 at 2:11 am Permalink
At least she’s read Edward Said, Franz Fanon and Camille Paglia. Educated response, but completely worthless in furthering the debate.
I love this attitude: because you’re white, and from priviledge, you can’t understand a damn thing, so sit down and STFO. What people like this don’t get is that thanks to priviledged white people moaning about inequity, we see that all humans are essentially the same. Change the roles around a little bit, mix up power relationships a touch, and anyone can become a myopic supremist.
Get over yourself. If you had listened to what people are saying, you’d feel just how much it resonates with what pissed off your grand / parents.
28/10/2008 at 6:03 pm Permalink
a sense of responsibility
Or: Societal guilt forcing you into unwanted obligations.
harmonious social relations
Or: Classism forcing the “lower” to shut up and put up with the shit of the “upper”.
respect for education
HAW HAW HAW~
Thanks for the laugh. Teachers are slightly above the hwajangshil ajumma on the respect scale here.
moral governance
Or: The status quo telling people how to think.
but denying that there’s any good in it at all is as seems just as fundamentalist as radical Islam or extreme far-right Christianity.
This is an incorrect statement. Fundamentalism has no meaning outside of a religious context.
If you actually ignore what the believers claim, and actually take the time to read the mythology, you’ll discover that religion has no moral core. And all of it’s “benefits”, (like working together, morals, and alturism), are things that occur naturally in people.
Religion’s only value is in social control… If that’s what you’re into.
29/10/2008 at 8:28 am Permalink
When we PCV’s used to get together in the 1970′s we used to complain ALL the time about Koreans. and WE knew the language and culture. We weren’t some ill prepared newbie fresh off the boat/plane. we lived, worked and played with Koreans on a daily and intimate basis and we still complained.
I guess some of the things we observed just didn’t seem to make sense to us.
Like not waiting in line to be served at the bank, Post Office, Bus station et al.
I was waitng in a long queue to see a Bruce Lee movie( I told you it was a LONG time ago) and I was getting frustrated because so many people were cutting in and expressing my angst in Korean. I was moved to the front of the line and I was overjoyed, until I was seated behind a post!!!!!!Karma I guess!!!!
29/10/2008 at 2:05 pm Permalink
I’ve come to take a certain delight in complaining loudly and viciously when some overstepping ajuma cuts in line or elbows me. It doesn’t always work, but I’ve gotten a suprise number of apologies and an even more surprising number of allies come to the fore to insist on right and justice and that ajuma getting herself back into the back of the line from whence she came. Sometimes its fun to twist the knife and declare loudly that the unwarranted act of aggression has given me “a bad impression of Korea!” But lots of the things that drive foreigners nuts also annoy the locals, and when made public we can all band together in peace, joy, and harmony . . . or at least in publicly shaming old dudes who shove in line. Or we can all just learn to shove like the natives, which also works.
Like I said, William G, it looks like you have your own issues with religion in general, but it’s not like Korea is the only country that has religion so I’m assuming your complains apply everywhere?
Regarding the definition of fundamentalism . . .
Oxford Compact: fundamentalism • noun 1 a form of Protestant Christianity which upholds belief in the strict and literal interpretation of the Bible. 2 the strict maintenance of the ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion or ideology.
And while I don’t usually use wikipedia as an academic resource . . .”Fundamentalism refers to a “deep and totalistic commitment” to a belief in, and strict adherence to a set of basic principles (often religious in nature), a reaction to perceived doctrinal compromises with modern social and political life.” The term was originally coined to refer to a very specific strain of Protestant Christian ideology, but any stance so firmly anti-religious seems to be equally ideological, and quite in keeping with the broader understanding of the term. At the least, it’s an awfully cynical stance.
29/10/2008 at 4:31 pm Permalink
I know I’ve already mentioned this, but seriously — why doesn’t the website for the Korean Postal Service list locations and times? I know street addresses wouldn’t exactly work, but why not “Office X near so-and-so station, exit X.” I finally found a post office near my home and work, but it took a few good hours of internet research (I finally found one using Wikimapia, of all things).
And yes, I know the main branch is in Gwanghwamun, but I found at least three different sets of “hours” for it, including two different ones from “official” Korean websites. FYI, it closes at 1 p.m. on Saturdays, not 8 p.m. (learned this the hard way).
I guess stuff like that can be annoying, because unless I’m missing something, it would take someone about an hour to simply update the Korea Post website:
http://www.koreapost.go.kr/eng/index.jsp
But that’s also pretty minor compared to the litany things I found myself bitching about in America before I came here.
29/10/2008 at 4:47 pm Permalink
I feel your pain, Jaim: adding a language barrier to bureaucratic institutions doesn’t make anything easier, does it?
11/11/2008 at 6:53 am Permalink
I completely agree with cheesburger. Above all, complaining expats suffer from a lack of self-awareness. Awareness that they are in a different culture, but more importantly, awareness of how their own culture informs their worldview.
Can you imagine a small, non English speaking, recent arrived immigrant group in America complaining about all the problems of American society (that is already covered by the American media) and expecting the Americans to listen to THEM for guidance on how to fix things?
And to the clueless person above who said:
“philosophies like Confucianism that should be tossed in the dustbin of history. But the only way to do that is to continue to point out that they need to be thrown away.”
And you wonder why they don’t listen to you?
11/11/2008 at 10:42 am Permalink
I think a lot of the complaining expats DO suffer from a lack of awareness, as you say, complainingexpat (convenient username)… but not all. There should be a distinction drawn between those who are complaining for some emotional reason of their own, some personal emotional release, and those who speak on Korean social/international/whatever issues in order to try and contribute (at least somehow) to Korean society.
I think that the ones who try to get involved in the discussion of how Korea can achieve its own stated goals — because it’s not Westerners telling Korea to become a “world hub of whatever” — it’s Koreans who want that, (and foreigners know how to convince foreigners to travel here, and foreigners know how to convince foreigners to invest here, probably better than Koreans do) — people trying to participate in THAT dialogue find it frustrating to be lumped in with Johnny Firstyear’s vocalising of his unreflecting culture shock, when they HAVE done their homework, and really do want to see Korea become a better place for everyone (not just for them) — a lot of us stand to gain or lose as Korea does well or poorly.
Not that I’m American, but I think that policy makers in America WOULD try to listen to that group of fresh-off-the-boat immigrants, if they were complaining about issues that pertained directly to them; they might even be consulted, say, if social services was interested in learning how to better support new immigrants’ transition to American life. Sure, they wouldn’t be consulted for fixing the mortgage crisis, but in the right arena, I think they’d have a voice in America, or Canada (where I’m from).
23/12/2008 at 1:28 am Permalink
You know what we say in America to foreigners that complain? Go Back to your own country. Git R Done, NASCAR Rules.
23/12/2008 at 1:39 pm Permalink
Brian, I loved your comments about the “kimchileader”. It reminds me of my friends old boyfriend “Tom”. I don’t like people who whine endlessly, but at the same time, people do have legitimate complaints, and work issues that they like to talk about with their friends. But “Tom” would shout down any perceived complaint, and testify how its worse at home, etc. And, at the same time, he would go around trying to convince everyone (and himself, it would seem) about how “cool” and great Korea is.
To make a long story short, he flipped his lid at his hogwon and got himself fired. He tried to rally people to his cause to fight this injustice, and all the injustices to English teachers. He must of forgotten all the times when he told others to “suck it up” when they had issues. I saw him about a week before he left, going on and on about what a “hole” Korea was and how we should all leave. Now whenever, I run across a kimchileader, I see a little “Tom” in disguise.
Wasn’t the Boston Tea Party about the right to protest? What is wrong with complaining? I understand why “ask a Korean” would defend Korea, as I believe he is Korean.
28/12/2008 at 1:58 am Permalink
This post by the Burger or whatever just rubs me the wrong way. It’s basically criticizing North Americans’ criticizing aspects of other people’s cultures by criticizing an aspect of North American culture–the assumption that they have a right to criticize.
So what gives Burger the idea she has the right to criticize North American culture, as an Indian? Or for that matter, Indian culture, as an North American? Because if she grew up/went to school in North America half her life, isn’t she just as much as an outsider to the Indian culture as she is the NA culture? How is she so sure she hasn’t completely eliminated her own North American cultural baggage to an extent that she can criticize any other culture? By her own criteria, she doesn’t sound qualified to criticize either culture.
“…but also examine yourself and your assumptions and your attitude and learn to evaluate how much of your entrenched background you are still caged within and what the nature of the cage is from which you speak. It is not the matter of how many years you have lived somewhere–it is a matter of where you are coming from.”
I think it’s impossible to be perfectly aware of where you are coming from at all times and to know with perfect clarity the nature of your particular cage. It’s a standard that is impossible to meet and impossible to quantify, but I agree it is one you should work towards, especially if you encounter something in another culture that you find strange, undesirable or indefensible.
Anyone who thinks people from her host culture should do what she says just because she says so has some work to do. Of course no one has to listen to you or agree with you. Only an arrogant, self-important person would think that, and those people are not exclusive to North America.
And Burger, how is “Well, I don’t care what you think, nyah, nyah!” NOT a defensive response to that clueless Canadian? Not only defensive, but rude! Sounds like you’re more North American than you realize or care to admit, huh?