From the K-Times:
Seoul Immigration Office Gearing Up for Better Services
Forgive my scepticism. But as the title imbues, I will believe it when I see it. Not to say that new Immigration Chief Woo Ki Boong’s aims aren’t laudable ones:
“The top priority for this year is easing administrative congestion by streamlining the process. This is for both immigration staff and visitors,’’ Woo said in a recent interview with The Korea Times. “A variety of fresh measures will be introduced to resolve congestion.’’
but then he reminds us of a bit of reality:
Noting that less than 100 officials handle more than 3,000 immigration affairs per day, accounting for nearly 30 percent of the nationwide workload, he said, “Under current conditions, better services are unlikely.’’
You’d think with so few officials they could all get their stories straight?! Wow I didn’t realise there were so few people at Immigration at Seoul. Oh Wait, the last time I was there I had to wait 2 hours for all of 3 minutes worth of face time with an Immigration Officer!
And least you think something might be happening:
Upon inauguration, the chief administrator formed a special task force to blow fresh wind into the changeless organization, hoping to produce visible improvements within the next two months.
“Everything will be changed, including office location, manpower and working processes,’’ the chief said. Offices at the immigration building will also be completely relocated.
That’s right! A Taskforce! Still if the Seoul Immigration office could be moved somewhere closer to say… Seoul, I would be a happy man.
Immigration is also seeking to get foreigners to use means other than face to face to access Immigration services. It notes the Immigration call centre available on 1345. It’s web front “Government 4 Foreigners” g4f.go.kr or whatever other PR name-of-the-minute web site that directs to is good for making appointments and doing things that don’t need an appointment like getting multiple entry permits, but suffers from the usual Korean dilemma: Active X rubbish, OS X non-compliance and information and applications distributed in Hangeul “.hwp” format rather than .pdf (or at the very least .doc!)
But officials said their user traffic is still shy of expectations due to a lack of media exposure.
Sure. Media exposure.
Anyway, I for one welcome Mr Woo and wish him luck in his new role. My ongoing support will be based on his ability to make the services and information I need accessible in an easy and timely manner.
29/01/2009 at 12:04 am Permalink
I live and work near the Seoul office in Mokdong, and my experience was painless (my boss’ brother took me one afternoon to get my ARC card).
Which is to say, I’ve met foreigners whose bosses didn’t arrange to have a Korean brush them through the Seoul immigration office, and that’s kind of f’d up (public school teachers, for example).
Again, ask lots of questions before you sign a contract. Will you provide a translator for my blood and piss test? Will you help me get my ARC card, i.e, actually take me there with someone who speaks fluent Korean? Will you help me get a cell phone? Etc, etc. With the won tanking right now, and my own recent nightmare with a “reputable” hagwon, you really don’t have to wonder why Korean schools are having a hard time getting native English speakers to come over here. Because remember, we’re also drug addicts and have AIDS. And kick ajumma down flights of stairs.
Hmm, this is very bitter. But I feel justified in venting a bit.
29/01/2009 at 7:54 am Permalink
Oh Wait, the last time I was there I had to wait 2 hours for all of 3 minutes worth of face time with an Immigration Officer!
I’ve been to immigration dozens of times, upward towards a hundred, partly because I had to deal with my own stuff, my girlfriend’s stuff, and the stuff of the people who worked in my company. I think that the number of times I had to wait more than an hour amounted to about 5% of visits.
The few visits I’ve made to US immigration, when it was still called the INS, were so consistently bad that I never thought to complain about ROK immigration. I’m talking about waiting four hours to be told that they’re closing, come again another day. No phone numbers to call to ask questions, etc. ROK immigration is getting better, even if the regulations for some are getting stricter. I know that’s not true for everyone, but that has been my experience: Have all your paperwork straightened out and ready to go, and you’ll get a smile and quick service. I’ve even been able to negotiate getting my documents back early, usually without any trouble.
And if someone is nice to you there, stop by their canteen, pick up a hot or cold drink (depending on the season) for yourself and one for that clerk, and then go up and say, “Thanks, and have a nice day.” They have a lousy job and even if you’re nice, there are a lot of folks there that make their day extra shitty. They will remember your kindness, and they might even pay it forward. That’s the Korean way, or at least it was.
29/01/2009 at 12:02 pm Permalink
Have to say, I’ve never been in and out in less than an hour in all the many times I’ve had to visit. Part of the solution is for them to simply hire more staff – I was once there for nearly three hours because they had only three people working on a day and time with notoriously high traffic through their Anguk offices. If all the desks had been in operation things might have moved at a slightly less glacial crawl. I would say that they need at least double the current staff. They might also look at expanding their digs at least at the Anguk office, because people frequently end up in the hallways and stairways during busy hours.
Another problem is that the staff themselves are often unprepared to deal with the unexpected. If you’re not on one of the more common visas, good luck. My last trip there was a nightmare experience as they kept my passport and documentation for nearly a month while they tried to figure out what visa I should get, then essentially making up documentation requirements because they really didn’t have any firm guidelines (if they go to their gigantic book of immigration law, that’s your cue to worry.)
Speaking of firm guidelines, they don’t exist. In three trips to renew my student visa with a multiple re-entry I was charged 30,000 won, 50,000 won, and 80,000 won which was then refunded so I paid nothing, depending entirely on which agent I saw. On my last trip, I paid for and was assured I had a multiple re-entry on my extension, which turned out not to be the case when I actually tried to leave the country.
Some of the people who work there are lovely, and I find things tend to be better if you deal consistently with the same person. Especially if you’re going to be going back several times, get the name of the person who helps you. Get the phone extension, if you can. It will save lots of time and confusion if you can call and ask Ms. Y or Mr. K, then bring the paperwork to them so that at least you have consistency in what is being asked of you. The agent themselves will often be kinder and more helpful too, and keep better track of your information if they know that they’ll be dealing with you repeatedly.
29/01/2009 at 12:47 pm Permalink
If you are waiting two hours then I suggest you get an appointment next time. The Seoul Immigration office accepts appointments over the internet now, so you can walk in and out in 15 minutes. How is that for service!!
I am really starting to see a pattern here with all the fear mongering.
29/01/2009 at 2:49 pm Permalink
WG ~ first, look up “fear mongering” because there’s none of that going on here. In the meantime, why don’t you apply those great powers of love, peace, and understanding you seem to think everyone should apply to all discourse on Korea, and apply it yourself to this website? If you just look, I’m sure you’ll find that most of us are engaged with the place we live, and dedicated to making it better. Constructive criticism is not “fear mongering”
I don’t make appointments because, as noted, you need active x. The website is a disaster, and even from my work computer I can’t get the darned thing to work properly. There’s a reason no one is using their reservation system, and it is NOT because it lacked “media exposure”
29/01/2009 at 3:00 pm Permalink
To repeat what’s been mentioned about Korean immigration, it really is all about who you get. If you ask a question to five different people there, you’ll usually get five different answers.
For example, I’m currently having my E-2 visa transferred to another sponsor/employer. At various points I was told a) this is impossible, you need to go back to America and do all of your paperwork over b) you have to do all of your paperwork again but hey, you only have to go to Japan c) your boss can take care of it and d) your boss can’t take care of it because his business is shutting down, and the second that happens you’ll be an illegal alien.
Turns out my current boss and my new one can take care of this on their own, but they’re also native Koreans who know who to talk to in the Immigration Office.
Obviously, bureaucracies are bureaucracies. They’re never fun to deal with, here or in the States or wherever. But I can assure you that in order to get my ARC card I had a) an appointment b) my assistant boss, a native Korean c) all necessary paperwork, and it still close to two hours. Not horrible, but I can assure anyone that you will never be in and out of there in 15 minutes unless it’s to be told you’re missing a piece of documentation.
29/01/2009 at 10:02 pm Permalink
Each Immigration office is different (I don’t need to point this out). I’ve never waited more than 30 minutes at Mokdong and Daejeon. In Kunsan, I was there for quite a while, but then only because my uni slammed them with every single foreign teacher and professor they had all at once… with only two wickets open and staffed. On the other hand, I’ve found Busan and Incheon to be nightmares.
And to re-iterate what Gomushin Girl said: the Immigration website, where one would presumably make appointments online, does not work with Macs or with Linux, neither does it work with Firefox, Opera, Safari or any other browser that does not use ActiveX. In addition, I’ve been told that the computers in my department are to have ActiveX turned off as a security measure. So… with all the computers at my disposal, I cannot use Immigration’s website to make the all-important appointment. So “user traffic is still shy of expectations” but not “due to a lack of media exposure”.
29/01/2009 at 10:52 pm Permalink
FDA I read that MAC usage is about 5-6% of computer users. Also isn’t Safari the web browser for MAC’s? It seems that you are listing the same thing twice. I don’t use a MAC so if I am wrong please feel free to correct me. To me it seems like a reminder why I would never buy a MAC (they never work with anything, so useless). I don’t expect Korea to make everything work so a few MAC users can be happy.
GG I got the darn thing to work right away. It was so easy and just took a few minutes. I know it works because I have seen it with my own eyes. You might want to ask for some help from somebody who understand computers better.
From Wikipedia- Fear mongering (or scaremongering) is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle.
An example is to tell people that it takes two or three hours to do something and you can get 5 different answers for any question. When lots of people will tell you that you can get things done pretty quickly and easily with little hassle. In fact, as I noted, you can get most things done with as little time as it takes to make a cup of tea (not including travel time).
One last thing GG, I do think understanding should be applied to Korean things. Is that so wrong? I also think that E2ers should be understood, and I try and do a pretty good job of that.
29/01/2009 at 11:48 pm Permalink
Oh WG, Where would I be without your constant blathering? 90% of what you are always on about is because you are too inept to look something up or haven’t read the post carefully.
Safari is for Macs and Windows. Macs work with everything I have needed it for except Korean websites. Korea better make things work since Microsoft is not supporting Direct X anymore (why the complete lack of Vista on the peninsula?) Why is the “most wired country in the world” using crap software that is easily hacked?
30/01/2009 at 1:23 am Permalink
OK, Wonderpeople and others — keep it cordial, even if you’re getting a bit irritated at each other. Go take a breather and get a cocktail, then come back with forced smiles.
Just saying.
30/01/2009 at 1:32 am Permalink
Hee hee! Y’all look so cute when you’re frowning at each other! ㅋㅋㅋetc.
30/01/2009 at 3:32 am Permalink
“I read that MAC usage is about 5-6% of computer users.”
—So? What about Linux? Plenty of Linux users out there, too.
“Also isn’t Safari the web browser for MAC’s? It seems that you are listing the same thing
twice.”
—Nope. Mac and Windows, both.
“To me it seems like a reminder why I would never buy a MAC (they never work with anything, so useless).”
—You mean, they never work with anything IN KOREA. I’ve had ZERO problems with my Mac (and with my Linux boxen, for that matter) in any other country over the last 20 years. Only Korea.
“I don’t expect Korea to make everything work so a few MAC users can be happy.”
—Why are you so hung up on the Mac thing? What about the rest of my point? What about Linux users? What about Firefox, Opera, and other browsers? What about those of us who don’t wish to compromise our computer’s security by using ActiveX?
Korea may be the “most connected” country in the world, but it still has far to go when it comes to proper website coding. Properly coded websites don’t need to worry about which operating system or which browser one uses, neither do they have gaping security holes leaving your computer vulnerable. It’s time for Korean web programmers to get with the times and stop using out-of-date and archaic coding, and start allowing a significant portion of the populace to use the websites like everyone else.
30/01/2009 at 9:19 am Permalink
“You might want to ask for some help from somebody who understand computers better.”
You might want to try and behave like an adult.
“An example is to tell people that it takes two or three hours to do something and you can get 5 different answers for any question. When lots of people will tell you that you can get things done pretty quickly and easily with little hassle. In fact, as I noted, you can get most things done with as little time as it takes to make a cup of tea (not including travel time).”
Next time I need to visit Korean immigration, you’re welcome to come with me. We’ll spend a lovely 1-2 hours together. Thing is, I’ve actually been through the process. I’m not lying, and I made it clear that American bureaucracy ain’t much better.
Honestly Wondergirl, your are a really unpleasant person. Thankfully, most Koreans I’ve met are a lot different from you.
30/01/2009 at 1:21 pm Permalink
30/01/2009 at 2:05 pm Permalink
“You might want to ask for some help from somebody who understand computers better.”
Who? You?
(Psst… I was a web programmer in a past life; I think I know a little about it)