You will recall earlier in the year that, although I don’t necessarily agree with them on the whole, ATEK, the Association of English Teachers in Korea, filed a complaint with the Korean Human Rights Commission(HRC) regarding the testing of E2 Visa applicants for HIV and Opioid / psychoactive / psychotropic use, on the basis that it was discrimination based on hearsay, misconception and some crap reportage by various news organs in Korea.
Since then, ATEK has come under considerable fire from a number of sectors about other issues (notably plagiarism and transparency), and while it seems the organisation has weathered that storm and is still about, and while it is happy to further make complaints to the likes of the Korea Press Ethics Commission, it seems to have done little in the way of responding to it’s complaint on the afore mentioned issue.
That may be because of the time the HRC has spent pondering the issue.
While I did not join ATEK, I did think they made a good point when it came to the testing of HIV and Drug use, given that most Korean teachers outside of the public system (i.e. Hakwon etc.) did not have to undergo such testing, and neither did F4 or F5 visa holders who are filling the same sorts of roles.
Thus I too petitioned the HRC and in lieu of anyone else telling you what’s going on I give you their latest response to the issue:
Or, if you prefer, in English:
It seems my petition and indeed all of those promoted by ATEK have been lumped into one complaint. This is a shame, especially as it relate to me and S.1(b) of the finding above as it relates to verification of scholarship – which I have no issue with, nor did or do I take issue with the Criminal Background check. (Which blissfully, is really easy for New Zealanders compared to our North American brethren.)
Oh well.
The first part however is less clear, especially given my ignorance of the way the system actually works. It seems that the HRC has deemed ATEK’s and my complaint about medical tests to be grave enough to warrant further investigation and take all the complaints it has received as a whole.
But I am not sure what the Policy and Education Bureau is. Is it part of the Human Rights Commission? Or is it part of the Ministry of Education? What powers does it have to make recommendations to Government, and how are those taken given that the HRC has quite a standing in that while not binding, it’s recommendations thus far have always been upheld.
Still It seems that there has been some progress, and I have duely emailed Mr Lee with my questions regarding the ruling above,and I will be interested to see how it progresses.
–
Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing to hide and nothing against either health or background checks. (And I would encourage you, dear reader, to have an annual check up regardless of your immigration status). My annoyance with the whole thing has been the arbitrary nature of the whole thing based on a web of lies spun by the media.
So there.
03/09/2009 at 10:41 pm Permalink
I suggest a read of the post made by Mike Yates on his blog as well….
http://yonguksaram.com/the-nhrck-have-made-their-decision-and-atek-are-not-operating-illegally.html
It addresses the Human Rights Commissions decision and a legal investigation into ATEK. The legal issue being especially interesting as it both clears ATEKs name (it is legal and that is extremely good) but it is severely limited in what it can do financially. A good read I think.
04/09/2009 at 4:08 am Permalink
Second point of note. ATEK is having elections for president and so far it seems only ONE name was submitted (Stephanie White). If that is true, it does not bode well for this association.
04/09/2009 at 8:49 am Permalink
1. the english version is very hard to read and is less clear than the korean version.
2. i will disagree with the view that having medical check-ups or taking a HIV test or even being tested for drugs byt NEts or other foriegners is discrimination or a human rights violation. teaching is a profession that influences young minds and teachers should be above reproach. if they feel insulted or violated then there is something wrong with the teacher, not the system.
3. Setting a good example is important and making a minute, minor issue into something a whole lot bigger is wrong. if you cannot obey the governing authorities of this country then you need to consider changing locales for you will only have more problems.
4. do not care what your personal opinion is on thismatter, if you cannot abide by the rules of the country how can you expect your students to abide by your rules in the classroom? people do observe your behaviors, words, and other actions and do put two and two together
04/09/2009 at 9:06 am Permalink
“if they feel insulted or violated then there is something wrong with the teacher, not the system.”
Ridiculous. I’m not a big ATEK supporter myself, but teachers have every right to safe and fair working conditions (i.e., not what you find in many hagwon throughout Korea). I myself have been cheated out of a fair amount of money. There was nothing “wrong” with me, but with my unscrupulous former employer.
“do not care what your personal opinion is on thismatter, if you cannot abide by the rules of the country how can you expect your students to abide by your rules in the classroom? people do observe your behaviors, words, and other actions and do put two and two together”
Once again, you have some obvious issues with projection. There is no “rule” that says a Korean school must lie and/or cheat its employees out of money, yet it happens routinely. But please, continue to whistle past the graveyard.
And honestly, if you want to talk about “setting a good example” as an English teacher, please learn proper rules for capitalization.
04/09/2009 at 9:29 am Permalink
@archaeologist
On point #2… NOT discrimination…? Really? Treating people differently based on national origin is one of the very definitions of discrimination. The legal problems occur because Korea forces E-2 visa holders to go through these tests AFTER arriving in Korea. At the same time, however, the tests are not being required of Korean nationals or (some?) other visa holders. Therefore, you have unfair (discriminatory) hiring practices being conducted inside Korea.
04/09/2009 at 12:56 pm Permalink
jaim– no western country can guarantee what you want and westerners cheat employees all the time. if yo do not like what happens then leave but you signed a contract stating you would obey all korean laws, you have no argument.
ian– it is not discrimination, korean nationals do not need visas to by in this country, the visa rules apply to all nationalities who want to come here thus there is no discrimination. please check the visa rules of your home country and see if you want them to apply to you as well.
04/09/2009 at 1:25 pm Permalink
“no western country can guarantee what you want”
Fairness and transparency from employers? You have awfully low standards. When American employers break contracts you can resort to an HR department or, if it’s really bad, lawyers.
“you signed a contract”
Yes, and a contract is a two-way agreement. My first experience here was with a Korean employer who broke our contract re: payment, work hours, vacation time, and, well, just about everything.
Your nerd-rage against even the slightest possibility that Korean employers actually do stupid/bad/illegal things is truly bizarre. Not that there aren’t bad foreign teachers as well, but it’s the hagwon or public school or university’s fault for hiring under-credentialed teachers and not checking references.
04/09/2009 at 1:52 pm Permalink
@archaeologist
Sorry, I’ll go back to my usual, objective, Wa-Po style as soon as I finish this.
04/09/2009 at 1:56 pm Permalink
@archaeologist: It is discrimination… Treating people differently based on national origin IS discrimination! Whether or not the discrimination that is occurring is punishable is what I would like to know. They also discriminate on which foreigners need to be tested. If you look at this outdated list (http://www.thebody.com/content/art2244.html), you will see that most countries test ALL foreigners who are entering/residing/working in a country, not just one or two sectors.
04/09/2009 at 3:18 pm Permalink
jiam- the employer did not sign a contract that stated it would follow all korean laws, read it again. you did,you have no argument.
ian– not going to clog up this forum with an argument, it isn’t discrimination and korea has the right to detemrine who follows which regulations, itis their land not yours. no one is holding a gun toyour head to stay, if you do not like it then return to your homeland, pay your own rent, 100% of your medical, 100% of your pension and receive no yearly bonus. stop being greedy and stop worrying about a little thing when you have a lot to lose.
04/09/2009 at 3:22 pm Permalink
I clearly can’t even get you to understand simple dictionary definitions, so I am done with this thread and any further discussions you are in.
04/09/2009 at 3:32 pm Permalink
Now now, you too, It’s my post, So I’m the only one who is allowed to take it and go home!
Actually I tend to think that both arguments are true to some extent. Korea, as a sovereign nation, does in fact have the power to determine whom it will let in the country and whom it will not.
Indeed as Ian helpfully links, there are many countries that have much stricter entry requirements. Try entering New Zealand on anything other than a
lord of the ringsTourist visa for instance and you ave to present all sorts of scans and xrays.That being said in the case of Korea, the application of these tests are selective (i.e. E2 visa holders). F4 and F5 visa holders, doing the same hakwon and public school jobs are not subject to tests.
No one from KIS has given a good reason why E2s are “targeted” except for those found in the popular press and unsubstantiated claims from lawmakers.
Therefore the current policy is discrimination.
However, I personally have no problems with it. I have no issue in submitting a health test (something I do annually anyway) and If I were to perform the same job in New Zealand I would likely have to submit a criminal check.
Plus I want a job, money, and this is what is required for me to get said job.
That being said the way the policy (it IS NOT LAW as yet) was instituted arbitrarily and in a supra-legal manner.
That’s my annoyance, rather than whether or not the tests are discriminatory.
04/09/2009 at 3:49 pm Permalink
“the employer did not sign a contract that stated it would follow all korean laws”
Um, there’s an unspoken assumption that employers are expected to follow the laws. That’s why they’re called “laws.”
“you have no argument”
I’m not really trying to advance an argument as much as I’m pointing out the various flaws in your own tortured thinking.
“stop being greedy”
Archaelogist, you need to turn yourself down to about a three or four.
As far as the tests are concerned, I really don’t care. I do think it’s a little unfair that E-2′s get tested but other teachers don’t, but then again I guess the thinking is that an E-2 person is probably going to be here on a short-term basis. It’s still unfair, but what the heck — I peed into a cup and I got blood drawn. In terms of the overall picture of teaching in Korea, I’m much more concerned about the need for regulating hagwon and schools to prevent crooked employers from lying about contracts and screwing people out of money. (And cheating parents out of the educational value that they expect, for that matter.)
Is archaeologist WonderGirl’s sock-puppet, me wonders?
04/09/2009 at 5:12 pm Permalink
“teaching is a profession that influences young minds and teachers should be above reproach”
Absolutely. Therefore the policy is discriminatory. Requiring ONLY E2 teachers is discriminatory. Why not F2 teachers? Why not F4 teachers? Why not F5 teachers? Why not E7 teachers? Why not Korean hagwon teachers? (public school is not part of this argument because they require checks for ALL teachers regardless of citizenship or visa)
If teachers must be above reproach, why only make sure one small segment of the child-teaching population actually is?
This is NOT an Immigration issue. It is an educational issue—Right? You said TEACHERS must be above reproach, not FOREIGNERS must be above reproach—Teachers of children, period, should be checked, not just foreign teachers on an E2.
[ for the record, I follow the law/policy as stated and didn't have a problem with submitting checks for years BEFORE it became an Immigration policy... my school required it as a matter of employment--ALL teachers were required to submit checks. Everyone was treated equally in such regard... but just because I follow the "law" does not mean the current policy is acceptable or shouldn't be challenged ]
04/09/2009 at 5:21 pm Permalink
Not a sock puppet of Wondergirl as far as I can tell, nope. On the other hand, Archaeologist IS well known on other comment boards around the K-blogs, and has been warned once already not to make sweeping generalisatons or unfounded accusations at The Hub of Sparkle.
I for one, would also prefer he gave the “if you don’t like it, go home” argument a rest, because it’s tired and unhelpful and often inapplicable to those who are committed to being in Korea for other reasons than money, and who are kept here by more compelling factors than “I love it here because bosses always keep their contracts”, but he’s free to have opinions I disagree with, as long as he’s respectful to the other commenters.
05/09/2009 at 12:52 pm Permalink
FDA: “Requiring ONLY E2 teachers is discriminatory”
But since all those different countries, no matter the color of their skin, all have meet the same regulations it is not discrimnitory. All those people , from all those different countries, no matter the color their skin, apply for specific visas all have the same rules to meet (per visa class), it is not discrimination. visa classes are not human, they have no race thus there is no discrimination beng applied.
“You said TEACHERS must be above reproach, not FOREIGNERS must be above reproach—Teachers of children, period, should be checked, not just foreign teachers on an E2.”
What people keep forgetting is that korean teachers ARE CHECKED. every two years they have to have a medical, they have to turn in their criminal record checks and their national identity number will provide more information about the teacher. Do you really think that korean employers just blindly hire someone just because they are korean? No they don’t, they interview, they turnin their resumes, etc. just like the foreigner has to andlike the foriegner the empolyer is free to do further investigation or not. so yelling that koreans are not checked means one is ignorant of the facts, whether willingly or not.
let’s not do the ‘divide and conquer’ mentality, it doesn’t matter if they are teachers of children, teenagers or adults, teachers have a responsibility to be good and do their jobs well. as an example, if they lie to their students then they are not good teachers.
Jaim: “I’m much more concerned about the need for regulating hagwon and schools to prevent crooked employers from lying about contracts and screwing people out of money.”
that is the government’s job and the police’s not yours. if you are hired to teach then concentrate on teaching. you will never be able to ‘cleanup’ the industry and such behaviors are rampant all over the world. An America city has to pay offending teachers to do nothing but sit in a room all day, korea doesn’t have a monopoly on bad behavior.
05/09/2009 at 1:00 pm Permalink
Jaim was hardly suggesting vigilantism ~ if you paid attention, you’d realize that his comments were directed towards government oversight and regulation. And as a teacher in the system, he has every bit as much of a stake in things as “Koreans” (whom you seem to regard as some monolithic group, v. much a mistake I would venture) and it is well worth his time to advocate and work to improve conditions.
05/09/2009 at 1:04 pm Permalink
stafford: “No one from KIS has given a good reason why E2s are “targeted” except for those found in the popular press and unsubstantiated claims from lawmakers.”
Does it matter? since when does any government have good reasons for anything they require? I have come to the conclusion that many NEts hold Korea up to idealistic standards and principles that their home country cannot meet. It doesn’t do any good whining about it and if you just accept the rules without complaint, meet the requirements, youwill live longer and have a better experience here.
“That being said the way the policy (it IS NOT LAW as yet) was instituted arbitrarily and in a supra-legal manner”
I don’t really care if it is a law or not, it is required so i do it. i didn’t like the regulations when they were first anounced and spoken against them, not because they were discriminatory, but because they did not solve the issue they were created to meet. We know that many NEts got CBCs from different states or cities to cover up offenses so the problem is still there and those who committ crimes but have not been caught also get to enter, so i would not worry about discrimination issues, i would worry about solving the problem.
Roboseyo: “Not a sock puppet of Wondergirl as far as I can tell, nope. On the other hand, Archaeologist IS well known on other comment boards around the K-blogs, and has been warned once already not to make sweeping generalisatons or unfounded accusations at The Hub of Sparkle.”
Not a sock for anyone though there are imposters of me out there. Keep in mind inthis country one has to use generalizations to avoid the libel laws and other problems that come from discussing certain issues. my generalizations are not meant to make innocentpeopl elook guilty but just trying to address the issue as legally as possible.
“I for one, would also prefer he gave the “if you don’t like it, go home” argument a rest, because it’s tired and unhelpful and often inapplicable to those who are committed to being in Korea for other reasons than money,”
The problem is here such people have agreed to abide by the laws of the land, if they have a problem withthem, then they needed to think before changing their status. Becoming a resident doesn’t give them the freedoms to change the country but aallows them to live and work here more freely than others.
That argument is the simplest solution and would save many headaches, heart conditions, and frustrations if those who coe here do not like it. they need to seriously consider looking for a place more suited to them. it is not right for guests or immigrants to come here then start barking for change and vilifying the very people who allowed them to stay. theywouldn’t want it happeningin theirown home so why should they be allowed to do it to koreans in their home?
05/09/2009 at 1:08 pm Permalink
Gomushin Girl: who gave him or anyone else the right ti interfere with the conditions i have agrreed to and entered into a contract with the koreans? no one. If he doesn’t like his situation then he is free to work on his situation but he does not have the right to interfere with anyone else’s employment, visa rules or other legal matters.
There is a boundary which many people seemed to have forgotten.
05/09/2009 at 2:59 pm Permalink
Thanks Stafford for this post. I also filed a complaint with the NHRCK on the E-2 visa issue. The complaint I filed on February 4, 2007 was also linked with 49 other complaints. And everyone, including myself, as received the same notice that you’ve posted.
While the notice is confusing and gets some minor and major points wrong (which I’ll save mention of for another comment if necessary) it is in fact good news. The good news is that all of the cases have been transferred to NHRCK’s Human Rights Policy Division (yes it is part of the NHRCK). This is good news because the NHRCK has decided that the E-2 visa in-country medical tests (HIV and drugs) presents a “grave[]” issue that goes beyond granting individual remedies (i.e. to the 50 who filed) and instead requires an examination of the nation’s human rights policy and culture change. This doesn’t mean the NHRCK thinks the individuals who filed the complaints aren’t important. On the contrary, the NHRCK has recognized that the issue these individuals have alerted it to affects a broad class of individuals and is of significance to national human rights policy. The NHRCK wasn’t the only group who thought our individual complaints were of significance, the international NGO Human Rights Watch also thought an important issue had been raised and showed its support by issuing an open letter to the NHRCK.
More good news comes with the fact that the process of addressing Korea’s national policy on HIV/AIDS has already begun. A recent Korea Times article explains that
“Korea is moving to scrap its policy of banning foreigners with HIV/AIDS. The plan emerged in the face of protest from foreigners and legal experts against what they call discriminatory measures.”
The reporter is jumping the gun a bit — Korea is not yet fully committed to abandoning its AIDS policy for foreigners — but it is true that the issue is being addressed at the highest levels of government. It’s also true that the discussion began because of activism by foreigners.
As far as the E-2 tests are concerned, a Korea Immigration Service official explained “if the Constitutional Court rules that making foreign instructors submit documents on HIV tests is unconstitutional, we may have to scrap the requirement.” Contrast that with a statement from an immigration official shortly after the first complaints had been filed claiming that appealing to “the constitutional basic rights of foreigners . . . misunderstands the relevant Korean law.”
The Constitutional Court saw things differently. The case filed by the Public Interest Law firm Gonggam on behalf of E-2 visa holders would have been denied by the Constitutional Court if it had not raised a cognizable issue, however, the E-2 visa case has been accepted by the court. While it has not yet been report, this first hurdle was cleared on July 31, 2009 and an official case number (2009헌마358) has been assigned. This means that the case will proceed to the trial phase. This is particularly remarkable considering that the many thought the case would be rejected as a constitutional issue of foreigners’ rights (although most agreed there was at least an administrative claim that could be heard by a lower court). It’s now clear that this case goes beyond English teachers and the E-2 visa and will address the limitations on the power of the government to implement measures affecting foreigners residing in Korea under the protection of the Constitution.
The transfer of the NHRCK complaints to their Human Rights Policy division corresponds with the acceptance of the E-2 case by the Constitutional Court and the elevation of the issue to national importance.
In addition to its national significance, the E-2 visa issue, particularly the HIV restrictions, has also attracted considerable international attention. UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon called on Korea to eliminate its discriminatory HIV after reporting of the Constitutional Court case. The JoongAng Daily linked the E-2 visa Constitutional Court case with the Secretary General’s statement here, the Choson Ilbo did the same here, and the Korea Times here.
More recently the issue of Korea’s HIV Restrictions was raised at the 9th International Congress on AIDS in Asia and the Pacific (ICCAP). International groups such as UNAIDS, the International AIDS Society, the International Organization for Migration, the AIDS Society of Asia and the Pacific (ASAP), and the Korea HIV/AIDS Center (among other) were in attendance and made aware of Korea’s newest HIV restrictions under the E-2 visa.
The HIV restrictions are of special concern to the ICCAP organizers as Korea plans to be the host of the 10th International Congress on AIDS in Asia and the Pacific in 2011. At the close of a presentation on Korea’s HIV restrictions a discussion broke out over whether Korea was a dignified host for the next ICCAP. It is encouraging to know that Myong-Hwan Cho, President of the AIDS Society of Asia and the Pacific (ASAP), is aware of the concerns over Korea as a host. ASAP is one of the hosts of the ICCAP, and President Cho, as a Korean national and representative of ASAP, will have the opportunity to make sure Korean authorities are fully aware of all concerns.
It’s likely that in the lead up to the 2011 ICCAP we will see many changes in HIV policy here in Korea, in fact, it seems we are seeing them already.
There are still problems however…
While the central authorities are well aware that the HIV testing regime is on its way out, provincial authorities haven’t gotten the message. The Ulsan Provincial Office of Education, for example, has recently instituted a policy of requiring foreign English teachers to retake AIDS and drugs tests every year. Not only is this requirement above and beyond the requirements of the Immigration Service, but there are no laws granting the Education Offices the authority for creating these requirements. This retesting regime is proving an embarrassment to the central government and even the KIS has given a statement explaining that if an employee continues with an employer there is no need to retest for AIDS and drugs when renewing a contract. It’s a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.
A teacher who agreed to the first test on arrival but — when pressured at the close of the first year to take a second test or not be offered a new contract — this teacher refused the retest and has begun a legal challenge against the retesting policy.
It’s very important to find out how many other provinces are implementing similar policies. We know that many (most?) have not done so. It would be relatively simple to get Education Offices to drop these tests if teachers would let it be known that – while the warm Korean hospitality they have received is greatly appreciated – being treated as foreign AIDS threat is not.
I encourage teachers to let us know if you are being asked to be retested for AIDS and drugs by your employers (khu.lawschool[at]gmail.com).
Finally, I would like to thank individuals who have already participated in letting the NHRCK know that it was time for Korea to address its discriminatory E-2 visa policy: your efforts have resulted in Korea taking a more enlightened approach towards non-citizens. Your complaints were respectful yet assertive, and those complaints are being respectfully considered. You believed that Korea had the capacity to change and we are seeing that it does.
It’s time we put to rest the cynical expat argument that Korea can’t change or doesn’t care what foreigners have to say. Even worse were the irresponsible posts and comments by some foreign residents saying that even talking about our human rights concerns would result in a violation of visa status and be “illegal”. Rumors circulated on the internet sites saying that filing a report with the NHRCK would result in arrest and deportation. We have seen for ourselves that this was never true; in fact, foreigners are encouraged to contact the NHRCK.
I think we need to recognize and appreciate that Korea has duly acknowledged our concerns and is in the process of working toward a solution. I’ve notice a trend with some non-citizens here who repeatedly stress that this is Korea and that only Koreans make the rules and only Koreans can change them if they want. This view is absolutely correct, but recall that the rules that Koreans have set up say that our rights matter, our opinions should be heard, and that bad rules should be abolished.
05/09/2009 at 3:43 pm Permalink
Wow, you’re a piece of work achaeologist. You wrote: “that is the government’s job and the police’s not yours. if you are hired to teach then concentrate on teaching. you will never be able to ‘cleanup’ the industry and such behaviors are rampant all over the world. An America city has to pay offending teachers to do nothing but sit in a room all day, korea doesn’t have a monopoly on bad behavior.”
Actually, as someone who directly suffered financially and professionally, I’ll thank you very much not to tell me what I can and can’t do. Korean officials are the ones who set up a system where an E-2 visa holder is essentially “tied” to his or her employer. You spit out comments about “free housing” when in fact this is the way the government wanted to do things. There’s a certain county to the east that shall not be named which has a much more flexible immigration system, and dare I say you seem to be a big fan of it.
“if you are hired to teach then concentrate on teaching”
When you aren’t getting paid, and your landlord is asking you why your employer is behind on paying the rent, teaching becomes impossible. When you are told you need to create a curriculum entirely on your own but are given no books or materials, and this type of consulting wasn’t in the contract, you’ll find yourself unable to teach well because you don’t have the most basic of resources to do so. When the parents are told their children will be in an English immersive environment, but your boss hires a co-teacher who speaks no English, and parents start to complain and your boss tells you simply to lie to them, you cannot achieve your goals as an educator in an effective fashion.
“who gave him or anyone else the right ti [sic] interfere with the conditions i have agrreed [sic] to”
First off, I’m going to be entirely petty and state that I really can’t believe you’re an English teacher, but more likely a sock-puppet trolling as one. I’ll admit that people have different standards when it comes to using proper spelling and grammar while on the ‘net, but still — I smell a rat.
Second, how am I “interfering” with anything? My first hagwon went kablooey, I got stiffed out of money, and I faced the risk of deportation. What did I do? I found another job, and things worked out well for me. They don’t always though, due to the high percentage of fly-by-night hagwon what are corrupt and illegal. It’s not at all uncommon for NET’s to discover that their employer isn’t making the correct payments into the pension or health-care systems, or that the employer has failed to do all the necessary paper-work for people to be here legally.
Obviously, we’re dueling with anecdotes here, but you really need to take your head out of the sand. To deny that their isn’t a systemic problem with the totally deregulated hagwon system and to some extent the public school system is to cover your eyes and plug your ears and deny reality. And as far as I know, the government has actually taken positive (although in some cases painful) steps to make sure the hagwon are cleaning up their acts. I’m lucky to teach at a reputable one that was more than happy to show the government that all of us foreign teachers were completely without reproach in terms of credentials, background checks, drug checks, etc.
At the end of the day, hagwon being run better and more scrupulously is good for the children and their parents who make the financial sacrifice of sending their kids to one. I don’t know what could turn the system around overnight, but I do know that simply continuing to blame foreign teachers, most of whom come here with the highest of ideals and good intentions, isn’t going to fix anything.
And while I wasn’t a big fan of ATEK, I do respect their right to organize in a lawful fashion. And I’ll happily remind anyone who will listen that as a foreign teacher who plays by all the rules, you can still get screwed pretty awfully by a Korean business culture that needs to learn that a contract in the West is binding, not a list of “suggestions.”
05/09/2009 at 9:27 pm Permalink
How on earth does anything Jaim or anyone else does have any effect whatsoever on your contract and adherence to it? If you’ve signed a contract and you stick to it . . .well, golly gee, good for you. But telling somebody else that their comments on an internet message board are out of line or that it’s nuts to want adequate enforcement and oversight because somehow somebody else saying that they got cheated is going to ruin your contract? What kind of logic is that?
Again, if you’re happy with your own little kingdom, congrats. Enjoy. But other people working within the system to improve conditions isn’t going to ruin your life . . . unless you’re a hagwon boss actively engaged in screwing over E2s ^^;;;
06/09/2009 at 6:37 am Permalink
Jaim– japan does not have the flexible visa you think it does. you still have to be sponsered by employers to work there. that issue has been explained and re-explained ad nauseum and some people just can’t let it go.
“When you are told you need to create a curriculum entirely on your own but are given no books or materials, and this type of consulting wasn’t in the contract, you’ll find yourself unable to teach well because you don’t have the most basic of resources to do so. ”
you are making a mountian outof a molehill, so what if your landlord asks you, just refer him to your employer or tell your employer what he is doing. the employers contract with thelandlord and his actions are none of your business.
you need books to write a curriculum? are you a native english teacher who has command of his language and remembers whathe has been taught or what has been in use for communication? are you solazy that you cannot go out tothe english bookstores and find suitable material but need the employer to spoon feed you the information? if they did that, they wouldn’t need to ask you, now would they/
I have been writing my own curriculum for 7 years without help from an employer. surely yo know how to take intiative and work on your own. this may sound insultng and condescending and it is in a small way as you typify the typical NEt that has come over to this country. you want everything handed to you so you do no work. if you cared about your students, you wouldn’t need the employer to do your work for you, you would know what you want to teach them and set out to produce that material.
ATEK has no right to interfere in other people’s visa regulations or how korea ruins its industries. if the individual members want a change, they can change their own situations by negotiations or departure. i have no problem with people working to change their situations in their schools via proper means but they have no right to do so for other people who have no problem with the industry the way it is. as for getting srewed it happens all over the world andit is not a korean monopoly nor unique event.
06/09/2009 at 6:48 am Permalink
Gomushin girl: “How on earth does anything Jaim or anyone else does have any effect whatsoever on your contract and adherence to it? ”
please re-read the post you are responding to, i said nothing about contracts, i said visa regulations. wagner and others are wrong and having read his report and his articles i can easily say he is using the wrong examples and references to make his point. they do not grasp what discrimination is and distort any definition simpl;y because they do not want to adhere to the rules. Since I am a Christian, I have no problem with the laws of this land or the korean right to implement regulations to restrict who enters their land–it is THEIR LAND they have the God given right to do so BUT people do NOT have the God given right to protest those acts or cause others to disobey the laws of the land (as is the case with that girl who refused to submit her tests. if she wants to work and live in this country she needs to obey the rules)
“Again, if you’re happy with your own little kingdom, congrats. Enjoy. But other people working within the system to improve conditions isn’t going to ruin your life . . . unless you’re a hagwon boss actively engaged in screwing over E2s ^^;;;”
that opinion ‘to improve the system’ is subjective and not grounds to interfere with korea’s rights or industries. i donot want any westerner being involved with Kroean affairs, if they want the western way, they are free to return to the west and live there. This is korea and they get to decide what goes onhere not NEts. if i had any of those people as employees, they would be fired for failing to abide by their contracts nd failure to do their job. their contracts do not allow them to be advocates, the visa regulations do not allow them to protest or ‘be involved’ in that part of the industry. they need to abide by their contracts and regulations they gave their word they would follow.
do yor job and you will see change, but remember, it is the korean industry, it is their money, it si their schools and institutions THEY ALONE have the right to determine how to run them and what they will pay.
06/09/2009 at 8:33 am Permalink
Archaeologist:
You have been warned once and reminded once not to make sweeping accusations or wild generalizations about English teachers. That is already more consideration than the site’s etiquette guidelines require me to extend to you. Yet you insist on using language like
“you are making a mountian outof a molehill,”
“are you solazy that you cannot go out tothe english bookstores and find suitable material but need the employer to spoon feed you the information? you typify the typical NEt that has come over to this country. you want everything handed to you so you do no work.”
Nobody ever said people from other countries didn’t screw employees. Bringing that up over and over on a Korea-focused comment board, especially in a way that seems to imply that because it happens in other places, we have no right to do, or say something about it here, is not only distracting from the actual issues at hand, but it’s repetitive and boring.
on ATEK and Wagner: “he is using the wrong examples and references to make his point.”
“they do not grasp what discrimination is and distort any definition simpl;y because they do not want to adhere to the rules”
If you are going to make claims like this, support them. That’s how people do things in discussions.
you said: Keep in mind inthis country one has to use generalizations to avoid the libel laws
that’s true. That means don’t name people. It doesn’t mean you are not allowed to use specific points or clear reasoning to support your assertions.
Wagner has directly refuted this argument:
Kindly move on to other topics.
You are repeating yourself, without adding further support (or any support) to your assertions, meanwhile making generalizations and accusations toward my other readers. This is the last time you will be asked, on this comment board or any other of The Hub Of Sparkle, to desist. This forum is my house, and if you want to come to my house, you will follow the house rules. Accusing other readers and making unsupported claims and telling them they don’t have the right to have their views, or talk about them, is like coming to my cocktail party and crapping on my carpet, and further such behavior will lead to a ban without warning. Repeating yourself will lead to deleted comments. Say something new, and say it respectfully, or this ceases to be a comment thread, and turns into a monologue. You may use the Korea Times comment forum as your soapbox. You may not abuse the Hub of Sparkle’s forums in the same way.
Everybody else: Ben Wagner made a comment a few back, that got stuck in moderation before I could run it. Have a read, and I’m sure some of you will have interesting responses to it.
06/09/2009 at 1:06 pm Permalink
고고학자: You wrote:
That, mon ami, would be where I got the bit about “contracts” that you say you didn’t said, not the “visa regulations” you claim to have been talking about. Again, if you can bring some evidence to the table that this kind of legal process affects your contract (or anything else) negatively, I’m quite happy to listen. And the whole point is that these regulations *aren’t * proper laws. As an American, I have no problem with non-citizens using the laws and system of my own native land to seek redress or changes to the system when they are in conflict with the laws, systems, and values of America. Most Koreans, I think, are reasonable people who would agree with that sentiment and the principal here. There is nothing illegal, nor morally wrong in the actions I’ve seen people take thus far. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s does not mean one cannot use Caesar’s own system of laws on one’s own behalf to redress problems.
06/09/2009 at 1:07 pm Permalink
sorry, there seems to be a problem with the formatting . . . the first paragraph should have been a block quote, the second should have been in regular typeface. Mea culpa.
[your formatting problem has been corrected -- the Admin]
06/09/2009 at 3:04 pm Permalink
“you still have to be sponsered by employers to work there”
But you’re not an illegal alien the second a fly-by-night hagwon gets busted or goes under. Huge difference.
“you are making a mountian outof a molehill”
You obviously aren’t a teacher. Creating a curriculum is not just hard work, it’s also an incredible amount of work. There are more than a few hagwon and public schools that don’t understand basic educational principles such as this, and this leads to lots of frustration.
“the employers contract with thelandlord and his actions are none of your business.”
Um, not when you’re evicted. Honestly, what planet are you from?
“are you solazy that you cannot go out tothe english bookstores and find suitable material but need the employer to spoon feed you the information?”
The reason teachers can’t just “go to the bookstore” is because the hagwon or public school doesn’t want to spend any money in the first place! Books and materials are expensive! But they’re also necessary, and many hagwon and public schools try to cut corners by expecting teachers to make up a whole curriculum from scratch.
Do you know who usually writes text-books? Tenured professors with PhD’s. And there’s a reason for this (although they do collaborate with teachers to test the effectiveness of the materials).
Again, until you prove me otherwise I’m going to assume you have no professional background in teaching. You simply no nothing about how it works.
“I have been writing my own curriculum for 7 years without help from an employer.”
If an employer makes this clear in the contract, then it’s no problem. Telling a teacher on day one that they need to make materials is a recipe for disaster. By the way, where did you get your PhD in Education? Must have been a really good university.
“the typical NEt that has come over to this country”
Um, the space-time continuum must be out of whack today, because I live in Korea.
“if you cared about your students”
Based on your strange ideas about education and your obvious problems with the English language, I’d be happy to be I’m a greater asset to my students and my employer than you are. Feel free to contact me through e-mail if you need further evidence of this.
“ATEK has no right”
What part of “I’m not a member of ATEK” don’t you understand?
06/09/2009 at 3:06 pm Permalink
err, need coffee.
“I’d be happy to share educational and professional histories with you to show I’m a greater asset. . . .”
06/09/2009 at 3:25 pm Permalink
“i donot want any westerner being involved with Kroean affairs”
This is, by definition, impossible. Seriously, read what you’ve typed here. How is education of the young not a central aspect of any country’s affairs? Korea’s goal is to educate a certain portion of the populace to speak English. Why not just get Koreans to do it? That’s right, because it wasn’t working and objective educational data shows that native speakers are the best means of teaching a foreign language. Maybe 100 years from now the robots will do a better job than us NET’s, but for now let’s face facts: We’ve been invited over here to teach, we’ve passed the various tests and checks established by the ROK, and we have every right to lawfully bring up issues and situations, as well as tell people what a cool place Korea is. (It’d be nice if you’d climb out of your bunker and appreciate the writing of people at places like Hub of Sparkle who really do a nice job of showing the many positive aspects of Korea as well.)
“their contracts do not allow them to be advocates”
No, their status as human beings does. And do you really think Korean Americans have done so well for themselves in the States because they shut their pie-holes every time they got dumped on?
“they need to abide by their contracts and regulations they gave their word they would follow. ”
For the nth time, I did exactly this. Actually, I did more than this because I was doing a lot of things that weren’t stipulated in the contract (i.e., that dirty word you hate, “consulting”). I lost my job due to the incompetence of the hagwon owner (not to mention a rough economy, I’ll admit) and was threatened with deportation. I landed on my feet obviously, but it’s annoying how you simply put your fingers in your ears and whistle when I try to tell you that NET’s who play by the rules and work hard still get screwed over by the unregulated and often corrupt nature of the hagwon and public schools.
Getting rid of the corrupt and/or incompetent hagwon owners and public school administrators would do a lot more for educational standards in this country. And not hiring bad NET’s would help as well but again, who does this hiring in the first place? A list of references is just that — former employers you can talk to. A transcript is just that — black and white evidence as to a potential teacher’s educational performance. Instead of hiring any native speaker with a pulse, why not put some quality control in place? It ain’t rocket surgery.
06/09/2009 at 5:15 pm Permalink
roboseol, i am well aware of your bias and that you will use any excuse to ban people who disagree with you.
i am done with this topic as it boils down to what i said previously ‘if you do not like the way korea runs things, then leave.’ even if you are married to a korean westerners do not have the right to tell koreans how to run their industries or demand changes to their systems, a person has agreed to live in this country the way it is and agreed to abide by its laws (no matter the visa class), to do otherwise would be making oneself a hypocrite and a liar.
one thing i have told many other people in discussions like these; if you want to implewment your ideas, then go spend your own money, get your own schools, hire your own staff, pay the bills with your own money recruit your own students etc.’ then let’s see if your ideas work or not.
the same thing works for visas. wagner and company need to either find their own country to implement their ideas on how visas should be run or convince their homeland to implement their ideas before even considering demanding that korea make any changes. this is not wagner’s or the westenr’s land, it is the koreans and they have the say and if the westerner doesn’t like it they need to leave.
06/09/2009 at 8:34 pm Permalink
again, nobody is talking about breaking laws, and Roboseyo’s just asking that we all play nice. You insist that we should all just play by house rules here in Korea, so why don’t we all do that here by using the standards of polite discourse already outlined? You can make a case that these regulations are necessary, not contradictory to the law, and not a place where discrimination is a moral wrong to your hearts content, but for goodness sake stop calling everybody else liars, idiots, and moral regenerates while we discuss things? Argue on the merits of the case and you’ll earn respect from everybody even when people disagree ~ but we already know that HoS requires a certain level of niceness. Calling out the mod seems neither polite nor politic . . .
But to get back to the point, a) do you think that the current regulations are in perfect conformance with the Korean constitution
b) why do non-citizen residents have no right to ask for legal redress in Korea through the channels and means established by the state itself? Does this apply to all nations equally? In the case of atrocities, etc. does this still hold?
c) what threat does this petition hold to your personal livelihood? You’ve claimed this in the thread, but not answered the specifics of how it would damage your standing.
06/09/2009 at 9:28 pm Permalink
If I might be so bold as to answer the questions Gomushin Girl poses:
A) Current regulations do infact contravene the Korean constitution. See Benjamin Wagner’s report to the HRC. Also see plans to have medical tests conducted outside Korea so that E2 applicants aren’t covered by the Korean constitution.
B) Non-citizens have all the right in the world to attempt to change the system they live in. Hofeldian rights systems notwithstanding we pay taxes.
C)None.
06/09/2009 at 10:40 pm Permalink
“wagner and company need to either find their own country to implement their ideas on how visas should be run or convince their homeland to implement their ideas before even considering demanding that korea make any changes.”
Well since Wagner is a professor at SNU, my guess would be that someone in the Law department at SNU wants there hear his opinions. Not only that, but the fact that the HRC responded to him is some indication that they are interested in his opinions too.
06/09/2009 at 11:21 pm Permalink
Archaeologist, the ingrown toenail of online expat communities.
06/09/2009 at 11:26 pm Permalink
Dear Archaeologist:
You know, I don’t understand why you fail to follow the guidelines of The Hub Of Sparkle. Didn’t you agree, by commenting here, that you would follow those guidelines? If you sign a contract, you have to follow its stipulations, or you have to go home and stop complaining. Ditto for comment boards. If you don’t follow those guidelines, then as it says in the bible,
This is typical behavior of everyone like you, and everyone of your race and profession, and it is people like you that give everybody in the whole world a bad name except Koreans, and it is completely not the fault of anyone except native English teachers who are all secretly colonists trying to change the country and get paid and make themselves look good by making Korea look bad. I’m not going to back up these claims. I’m just saying this stuff to balance one-sided commentary on K-blogs, you know, so I don’t have to think about what I say, or support my claims. Obviously, if you are being called to follow rules of discourse and guidelines, it is totally your fault and I don’t understand why you blame Koreans for your own bad behavior. I develop my own curriculum and I signed a contract and you have no right to act like a jerk on my comment board or do anything else on my behalf because I’m doing just fine in Korea, thanks, so I can’t imagine how others could have a bad time: it must be their own fault. You say you know what polite discourse is but you don’t. I’m not going to back up my assertion because everybody knows it’s true but if you don’t like it, maybe you should invent your own country, with its own blogosphere, where you can follow your own rules and comment or bully other commenters however you like. But if you don’t like the way things are run at The Hub of Sparkle, then you have the free choice to leave and not come back, even if you’re married to a Korean.
And you’re biased. Srsly!
And if you respond to this comment I’m going to skim what you said, call you stupid and a Korea hater, and then repeat the same arguments I already made, and refuse to back up any claims you asked me to support with specific evidence.
OK. Now that I’ve thrown a few of your own words/arguments back at you, everyone here trying to actually have a discussion can get back to it.
Accusing the site admin of bias after being warned twice more than I’m required to do is like begging. For cripes’ sake, Wondergirl at least occasionally responded to what people actually said.
so yeah, I’m biased. Biased toward people who are respectful of other commenters, and the guidelines and administrators at HofS.
Commenter banned.
06/09/2009 at 11:47 pm Permalink
Thank you Rob…!
//came back for the ban
07/09/2009 at 2:14 am Permalink
“one thing i have told many other people in discussions like these; if you want to implewment your ideas, then go spend your own money, get your own schools, hire your own staff, pay the bills with your own money recruit your own students etc.’ then let’s see if your ideas work or not.”
Not possible. Korean officials made it clear from the start that the money-making bonanza that is English teaching would only line the pockets and coffers of Korean owners. And that’s fine with me, actually. But if and when they break laws regarding contracts, they should be held accountable.
“if you want to implewment your ideas”
I implewment with the best of ‘em, archaeologist.
07/09/2009 at 8:41 am Permalink
Now, towards a more civil discussion (thanks Rob)…
In most countries, minorities and foreigners are discriminated against in some way. If anybody needs a history lesson, go back to the U.S. treatment of Japanese shortly after World War II, the German’s treatment of Jews before WW II, or even the U.S. treatment’s of Arabs shortly after 9/11. The ‘official’ rule may have said one thing, but the ‘understood’ rule was quite different.
Over the last decade or so, there has been a big discussion over illegal immigrants in the U.S., and what rights they should have. I recall something of a fairly large demonstration of Mexicans/Mexican-Americans – both legal and illegal – some time ago (maybe a year or two?) to lobby for their rights. If you got virtually every foreign English teacher in Korea together and lobbied in front of City Hall / National Assembly for their rights (equal treatment, end to discrimination, etc.) it would probably make the news worldwide – especially when done for a specific reason.
To those who say breaking the law is wrong, or that following the laws of our host country is wrong, consider what those laws are preventing you from. Some laws make sense – laws against murder or theft are necessary for a functioning society. Other laws – Jim Crow laws, anyone? – are simply there to protect the power of a powerful few. I submit that Korea’s libel laws have much the same effect in either chilling free speech or giving the harmed a chance to hurt far more than any words against them did.
If you’re American, your forefathers risked death by some very unpleasent means to fight for freedom (drawn and quartered – look it up – or tarred and feathered!). If your parents (or grandparents) did any fighting in World War II, there were more than a few laws broken to maintain the freedoms we enjoy today. People courageously break the laws they think are wrong to fight for something better. How many of us read about a lady who was arrested for sitting on wrong part of the bus, or the four men that refused to leave a lunch counter? Take another look at the history of civil rights across the world (even Gandhi probably refused a ‘disperse this crowd’ order or two), and you’ll find laws being broken everywhere you go.
I applaud Ben Wagner and his efforts to make things fairer for the foreign community in Korea. Hopefully the attention that has been stirred up will cause some actual change to happen – and the international spotlight can’t hurt either.
07/09/2009 at 10:32 pm Permalink
Archie: “What people keep forgetting is that korean teachers ARE CHECKED. every two years they have to have a medical, they have to turn in their criminal record checks and their national identity number will provide more information about the teacher.”
Yes, I have already said this. All teachers IN PUBLIC SCHOOL are checked. Very few Korean teachers (or non-E2 teachers for that matter) are checked IN HAGWONS. And therein lies the problem: NOT all teachers of children are being checked.
If you insist on saying that ALL Korean teachers are being checked, you simply do not have any relevant knowledge into the workings of the modern day hagwon. I have years of direct experience on the labor and legal side of the industry, and I can tell you for a fact that the majority of HAGWONS do not do criminal checks for their teachers (except in the case of E2 teachers). To say otherwise just reveals ignorance of the facts.
07/09/2009 at 10:47 pm Permalink
Archie: “japan does not have the flexible visa you think it does. you still have to be sponsered by employers to work there.”
Not always. I was on a humanities visa and sponsored myself. Later, I was on a work visa and after I left my first employer, since they were no longer my sponsor, I sponsored myself again.
But why let facts get in the way of your point.
07/09/2009 at 11:18 pm Permalink
Fan Death Avenger – good point about the K teachers Hagwons not getting criminal checks. That’s a big problem with “passing the trash” – that is, a public school teachers gets booted for abuse and ends up in a hagwon.
But I wish you and others would be more careful about what they mean when say Korean teachers get “medical checks”.
Yes they do but these “medical checks” do NOT include AIDS tests and drug tests (as well they shouldn’t).
As an E-2 teacher at a university years ago (before the drugs and AIDS tests) I got “medical checks” too. Heck, “medical checks” are great when they are designed to do what “medical checks” are designed to do – that is make sure you are healthy.
But that’s not what the AIDS and drug tests “medical checks” are about. They are designed to exclude people from care by deporting them from the country. They are a search, just the same as if the police came to your apartment and looked for drugs and paraphernalia or AIDS medications and if they found them kicked you out of Korea. Hey but why are you looking in my house to begin with?? What did I do? Many people have worked as English teachers – legally – for many years in Korea, have done a good job, didn’t do drugs or rape any students or commit any crimes. What they’ve gotten in return is suspicion and body searches…
07/09/2009 at 11:19 pm Permalink
Arch can’t hear you. He gets a big screen of “you’ve been banned” death if he tries to access Hub. All four of the URLs he posted from. But thanks for pointing that out, FDA.
08/09/2009 at 2:04 am Permalink
Fan Death Avenger: “Yes, I have already said this. All teachers IN PUBLIC SCHOOL are checked. Very few Korean teachers (or non-E2 teachers for that matter) are checked IN HAGWONS. And therein lies the problem: NOT all teachers of children are being checked.”
Every teacher who works in a hagwon is supposed to be registered with the MOE. In order to register the teacher, the owner must submit a criminal record check (along with their degree certificate). I am curious where this ‘very few’ number is coming from.
At present, the Korean government is offering a 2 million won bounty for every illegal teacher a person reports. Why not make some cash? Walk into any hagwon and ask to see the 학원 강사 게시표. They have to show it to you by law. Any teacher on that is legal. They have proven their academic credentials and provided a criminal background check. Just to counter your ‘statistics’, 100% of all hagwons I have worked at as an F-visa holder have registered me with the MOE.
Now… the health check. Korean citizens are required to do a medical every couple of years if they have NHIC coverage. Apparently (and this is me repeating what I have been told, so perhaps somebody else can confirm), foreign residents have to do them too. If I have to do one, it will be due next year. It covers more than the E-2 checks, and having to mail off a stool sample before the test is just one of the stories I have heard repeated.
08/09/2009 at 10:13 am Permalink
Mike, have you seen the story here?
http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2009/09/kbs-news-targets-new-loophole-in.html
If the facts alleged are true, it seems that an F-2 with a criminal record has been working illegally as a teacher of children. The report says “it was found that in Canada in 2003 he [the F-2 teacher] had been barred from the local teacher’s association for uttering death threats, inappropriate relations with students, and ‘police violence’”.
We all know the media often gets things wrong, and the majority of F-2s are definitely above reproach, but assuming the facts are correct isn’t this proof there is a valid argument for F-2s undergoing criminal checks? (Not mandatory AIDS tests of course, no one should have to submit to those non-voluntarily).
I left a comment asking for comments from F-2s opposed to criminal checks for teachers of children who were married to Korean spouses. If this is still your position (please correct me if I am wrong on this), I was wondering if you could leave a post? I’d also be interested in hearing from “Howie” and “Pocari Boy”. Thanks.
Also, I think it was pointed out above that “medical checks” for Korean citizens and teachers don’t include mandatory AIDS tests and drug test. It’s a bit confusing when people use this term without clarifying it.
08/09/2009 at 10:49 am Permalink
Mike, and could you please provide a legal citation for your statement:
“Every teacher who works in a hagwon is supposed to be registered with the MOE. In order to register the teacher, the owner must submit a criminal record check (along with their degree certificate).”
Unfortunately, after researching this area of law for nearly two years now, I feel confident in saying you are in error on this. But it’s true that I can still miss things and since I would really love to be be proved wrong on this point, could you please send along a proper citation of the Korean law (Act name, article number, section number) that requires the above as soon as possible. Thanks.
09/09/2009 at 4:21 pm Permalink
Mike: I saw your blog post entitled “The NHRCK Have Made Their Decision” about your “reliable source” stating that “the NHRCK have made a decision in regard to the Equal Checks for All campaign.” Specifically you say “They have found that all teachers in Korea, be they Korean nationals or those on other visa types, are required to submit a background check from their country of permanent residence (i.e. Korea), and so foreigners should have to undergo the same checks.”
Care to reconcile that statement with the information that’s been presented by Professor Wagner above? Is (1) your source in error, (2) your interpretation of what your source actually reported in error, or (3) Prof. Wagner in error? Because one of those three things has to be true.
10/09/2009 at 2:02 am Permalink
Just to clarify my comment in light of the most recent one — I’m not trying prove that someone is in error here.
The reasons I comment at all on blogs is to share information, particularly on legal issues, that other people might not have – like Stafford posting the NHRCK decision – it’s useful to know what’s out there.
Criminal checks and medical checks, what they entail (e.g. mandatory AIDS & drug tests or not), who is supposed to get them, what specific laws require them – that’s what many people reading this post are interested in. Sharing information and ideas is what I’m here for, I’m not here to prove myself right.
But it’s useful to have accurate information, conclusory statements like ‘so and so is the law in Korea’ or ‘all Koreans are required to do this’ or ‘no foreigners can do that’ aren’t helpful.
And even knowing “the law” doesn’t mean we know something for certain. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Not so long ago, for example, we had people shouting about foreigners engaging in “political activity” that would result in visa cancellation and deportation – and they would quote section and verse of the Immigration Act. But what was the “political activity”? Well, anything those individuals were sick of hearing other foreigners talk about. The “law” was just used to prove people wrong and put them in their place.
I’m not interested in playing that game.
On the issue of criminal background checks being required by law for Korean private school teachers – an issue of crucial importance – from what I can tell, there doesn’t seem to be a proper law for that as of yet. And even in some case where there seems to be a law (see 청소년의 성보호에 관한 법률) that requires it – for example, private physical education instructors, like tae-kwon-do instructors – the rules are applied in a perfunctory manner or not enforced at all.
So if people are aware of rules that are out there that aren’t followed or if people are being made to do things that aren’t required by law, let it be known. Discussing the issues can have a big effect.
Recent discussion on the lack of adequate safeguards and punishments for Korean citizen teachers involved in sex offences and bribery resulted in the introduction of 5 new bills on the subject to the National Assembly.
5 bills by Rep. Kwon Young-Jin (2009.06.03) Wednesday (Korean Citizen Teachers)
1.No. 5010
http://likms.assembly.go.kr/bill/jsp/BillDetail.jsp?bill_id=PRC_U0T9A0O6K0N3X1Y1P5Z9D0V4G5F2W6
2.No.5012
http://likms.assembly.go.kr/bill/jsp/BillDetail.jsp?bill_id=PRC_G0J9H0V6X0G3S1T2A0U1H3W8A0S6R2
3.No.5013
http://likms.assembly.go.kr/bill/jsp/BillDetail.jsp?bill_id=PRC_I0O9M0Y6E0V3J1B2N0U7W2Z2B8O5M4
4.No.5014
http://likms.assembly.go.kr/bill/jsp/BillDetail.jsp?bill_id=PRC_W0Y9A0D6F0W3K1B2A0P8T3K9U2K6F0
5.No.5015
http://likms.assembly.go.kr/bill/jsp/BillDetail.jsp?bill_id=PRC_S0V9N0R6F0D3M1G2G1H0H0F2A1A0U0
The idea that in Korea (or anywhere for that matter) the laws are all there and provide for every contingency is simply incorrect. It’s a work in progress.
10/09/2009 at 9:31 am Permalink
If the above link “청소년의 성보호에 관한 법률” has problems try this:
http://ko.wikisource.org/wiki/청소년의_성보호에_관한_법률
Or google “청소년의 성보호에 관한 법률” and you should get a workable link.
11/09/2009 at 7:24 pm Permalink
I’m interested in the truth, and Mike’s reported facts and Ben’s can’t both be true. Mike, what’s the deal?